Discussion:
F.L.Y.
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Richard Bannister
2020-10-08 07:21:54 UTC
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Just thought I'd start a thread on Vekoma's latest masterpiece (and if there was ever a sign that the world had changed, it's that sentence).

https://rcdb.com/15201.htm

Phantasialand have built a true gem. I'd argue that this is the first flying coaster that _really_ feels like flying. Alton Towers' Galactica gets close, but this one really nails it.

They've also got the loading system right. You board sitting upright with your back to the track, and the move to flying position happens effortlessly while the train is moving.

-
www.retrogamesformac.com
Marshall
2020-10-08 13:35:24 UTC
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Post by Richard Bannister
Just thought I'd start a thread on Vekoma's latest masterpiece (and if there was ever a sign that the world had changed, it's that sentence).
https://rcdb.com/15201.htm
Phantasialand have built a true gem. I'd argue that this is the first flying coaster that _really_ feels like flying. Alton Towers' Galactica gets close, but this one really nails it.
They've also got the loading system right. You board sitting upright with your back to the track, and the move to flying position happens effortlessly while the train is moving.
-
www.retrogamesformac.com
...and a failure of the mechanism to rotate to flying position just means you go thru the course sideways. No safety problems at all, just a different experience. Also leaves open the possibility of X2 style in-ride rotating seats.

And I disagree...except for the vertical loops, the Vekoma Dutchmen models already felt like flying, just with god-awful trains.
I just dont see the love for the B&M flyers. That pretzel loop is just painful and nauseating. Loading the trains is much easier tho.
Surf Dance Chris
2020-10-08 13:54:12 UTC
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Totally agree on the pretzel loop being awful. I’ll rarely ride one other than for credit because of it. Other than the trains themselves, I prefer the Flying Dutchman over the B&Ms (though I’m really not a fan of the flying coaster concept in general).
Dave Althoff, Jr.
2020-10-10 05:59:22 UTC
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Marshall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
: ...except for the vertical loops, the Vekoma Dutchmen
: models already felt like flying, just with god-awful trains. I just dont
: see the love for the B&M flyers. That pretzel loop is just painful and
: nauseating. Loading the trains is much easier tho.

Honestly, I think both Vekoma and B&M blew it with the 'flying' bit. B&M
has a better train design, but I think they made it too complicated; I
think it should have been possible to set it up so that as the train comes
into the final brakes the pins can release and the cars fall down to the
vertical position...use gravity to lower the cars and a hydraulic cylinder
to limit the rate of travel. But both B&M and Vekoma don't put the rider
into a 'flying' position by any means. In both cases it's a sitting
position but biased to a face-up or face-down orientation.

The only manufacturer who got the position right also built the worst ride,
and that would be Zamperla. The Volare design really was moving in the
right direction. Then they goofed it up in several ways, and used the
concept on a terrible ride.

I think Vekoma's design would have been a lot better if they had figured
out how to make it work as originally intended, with the seats upright
through the station, reclining on the lift and standing up again on the
final brake. Instead their design actually puts the rider into an
unpleasant head-down position at points where the ride isn't doing
anything. If the cars were to recline on the lift, you might not even
notice it happening as you shift from upright and approaching the lift to
ascending the lift at about the same angle. Then at the top you flip over
and start flying, and it would have been pretty neat.

All three designs suffer from an apparent need to keep flipping riders
over. What does it mean to do an inversion when you are in a prone or
supine position? This is a riding position where inversions are pretty
meaningless because there is nothing novel about them. And which way is
"up" anyway? In a traditional sense the only "inversion" on these rides is
when you dive off the lift hill. The rides really need to do more flying
and less flipping. Especially the Zamperla version. That's the reason that
Tatsu and Manta are the best versions of these rides; because they maximize
the flying...and Tatsu becuase it maximizes its location at the top of the
Mountain.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Richard Bannister
2020-10-10 07:15:32 UTC
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Post by Dave Althoff, Jr.
I think Vekoma's design would have been a lot better if they had figured
out how to make it work as originally intended, with the seats upright
through the station, reclining on the lift and standing up again on the
final brake.
F.L.Y. gets close to that. You load in a seated position and the switch in and out of flying position happens while the train is moving.

-
www.retrogamesformac.com

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