milst1 <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
: I have deep respect for Dave's opinions and knowledge on all things
: amusement-related, I disagree on this. I think that masks should be
: required. That said, I know any enforcement will be lax and that we are
: all doomed.
I never claimed to be a medical expert. That said...
: Masks are only partly for one's own protection. They are also for the
: protection of others. I don't want to spend a second near someone who is
: infected and not willing or able to wear a mask to limit my risk.
And I certainly can't blame you for that. But my experience with amusement
parks is that even when the crowds are heavy (and most of the opening plans
insure that they won't be) I find that I spend very little time les than at
least arm's length (even in a queue) and more often far more than 6' from
anyone I don't actually know. Combine that with the great outdoors and the
mask really becomes little more than an unnecessary nusance. I'll avoid
calling it "useless" but in reality I don't think it improves anyone's odds
much outdoors.
: I understand the point about "distance and fresh air", and you can add
: sunlight, but how often does one have 6 feet around them at a theme park
: or fair? Not so much. You're constantly being hit by the microscopic
: spittle of others around you. Masks reduce that crop dusting
: considerably. Even with reduced capacity, people are going to rub
: shoulders from time to time. What if it rains? Everyone crowds into the
: nearest shelter, breathing on each other.
There is that. Of course there are other considerations. Will people crowd
thusly? Or will they just go home? Let's add in another variable: What are
the actual odds that anyone you meet is actually carrying the virus?
Evidence of asymptomatic spread is extremely scarce and mostly anecdotal.
Parks that are opening are making an attempt to keep symptomatic people out
of the park entirely. I'm in Ohio where my odds of meeting a person
infected with the virus are about 1:2700 assuming that the cases are evenly
spread across the state, which they are not: in Ohio a tremendous number of
cases are concentrated in collective living environments (nursing homes,
prisons, group homes). Of course this presents a nightmare for a park like
Cedar Point (dormitories) but it means that in reality the virus is not
especially widespread in my community. It is extremely unlikely that any
person you encounter in my state currently has the virus. Not zero, of
course. Given the math I presented earlier, that's 6 people in a typical
crowd at Cedar Point. And of course, you don't know which 6.
: And no, nobody likes wearing a mask, but it's not a particularly heavy
: burden to bear, especially for a crowd that expects to get their photo
: taken with a costumed cast member who is gasping for breath and sweating
: it out in a Tigger costume. Medical personnel wear the simple surgical
: masks constantly and manage to function.
Medical personnel are wearing their surgical masks in a climate controlled
environment. Personally, I don't know how they manage, but more on that in
a moment...
: And the guys who mow your lawn in 100 degree heat also seem to survive
: while wearing masks.
Well, they guy who mows my lawn in 100 degree heat doesn't. That would be
me, incidentally. I don't trust others not to cut the cord.
: Theme park goers are not doing strenuous labor, and
: going to a theme park is not what I would call a god-given right. If you
: can't survive a simple mask in the heat, maybe you shouldn't be out in
: the heat at all. You're putting yourself in danger to begin with. Don't
: also endanger others.
Sometimes it isn't the heat.
Originally I was anti-mask only as a matter of principle: there are other
methods we can employ to protect our fellow citizens that are actually more
effective. As a person who doesn't wear a mask in the grocery store, I've
been indirectly called some of the worst names in the book...not
personally, but as one of Those People Who Don't Wear Masks In Public.
Villified like you wouldn't believe. And yet in real life, I haven't
received so much as a dirty look. Part of that, certainly, is because I
deliberately stay away from people. I keep aware of my surroundings, and of
the people around me, and do lots of little things, a few obvious but most
not so much, to protect my neighbors from my exhaled filth. People do
notice, and occasionally they will back off as well.
Anyway, my choice to go maskless was just that...a conscious choice, with a
full understanding of what that requires of me to protect the people around
me even though I am fairly certain I am not carrying the virus (fairly
certain is not 100% and I respect that). That doesn't mean I was an
absolutist in the matter. When I had to go to a local hospital a couple of
weeks ago to have a bit of non-destructive testing done on my leg, I walked
in from the parking lot, had my temperature taken and was handed a paper
mask. No problem, I put it on, ridiculous as it was with my beard hanging
out. Told the greeter why i was there, headed down the hallway and down the
stairs to the admission counter. I started off down the air-conditioned
corridor. The stairs were a bit of a problem as the mask was forcing my
glasses up enough that I was looking through the wrong part (progressive
lenses). But the bigger problem was the breathing obstruction. By the time
I got downstairs, I was gasping for breath, dizzy, shaking, and...to put it
mildly...a complete wreck. The back of the mask and the covered part of my
beard were completely saturated just from exhaled moisture; I hadn't even
started sweating yet. I sat down and waited, and finally figured out that
if I put my thumb behind the mask at the bottom I was able to get enough
fresh air to be almost comfortable, although the ultrasound tech demanded I
not do that. When the procedure was finished, I actually exited the
building through a door that forced me to walk the long way around just so
I could be rid of that damn mask.
I'll be the first to tell you that my reaction did not make physiological
sense. But that reaction was very real, and very much unintended. It did
give me a better insight into some previous incidents, and probably goes
back to something that happened to me almost 50 years ago. I know that I
didn't last an hour in a low impact climate controlled setting (most of
that time spent sitting or reclining). I know full well there is absolutely
no way I could last an entire day, at least not with anything anyone would
consider effective.
So I do have a bit of an ulterior motive for preferring "suggested" to
"required". And sure, just about anywhere that requires a mask will allow
exceptions for people like me. But if it's truly optional, then I don't
have to spend the day explaining myself.
: ...Nevertheless, there is a significant percentage of the population that
: will behave selfishly with zero consideration for others, or who will
: behave stupidly and thoughtlessly, and who don't care about giving the
: finger to the medical community, or to me and you, intentionally or not.
: Lots of people are assholes, and lots of people are stupid. Both types
: are dangerous.
We have to deal with that every day of the year, in every situation. It's
not that different from driving on the expressway, where you have no
control over what the idiots in the other vehicles are going to do. You
have to know and understand the risks, and deal with them accordingly.
: I normally pull out the "my wife is an ER doctor in Queens" card now but
: I'll spare you, except to say that she's terrified in a big box grocery
: store, can't imagine getting on a plane, and thinks that opening up now
: is suicide. COVID-19 is some serious shit (literally hundreds died at her
: hospital and they are dreading a second wave) and the number of
: hospitalizations in the US is rising, not falling.
This is a useful bit of information, because I think it underscores the
geographic divide that comes along with this virus. Oh, sure, it's plenty
serious. I work in a call center, and before they handed me a computer and
sent me to work at home, we had probably a dozen people test positive..and
during my second week at home I learned one of those people (who I did not
know) died from complications. But until the restrictions were lifted, our
hospitals were empty, our emergency rooms were closing and our medical
professionals were being laid off because of the wave of cases that never
happened. But that's how we live in Ohio. We live in single family homes,
we drive cars, and for a lot of us, a certain amount of "social distancing"
is just kind of how we do things. And I suspect that also influences our
differing viewpoints on the risks associated with this virus.
: Until the nation starts to manage the disease intelligently, or until the
: vulnerable are all dead, you probably won't see us at a park. And if
: we're among the vulnerable, you won't see us then either.
FIrst of all, we're really better off not managing the pandemic nationally.
Partly due to classic Federal incompetence, but mostly because of the need
for a localized response. In many ways it's the same as my argument against
giving the CPSC jurisdiction over amusement rides. (See? Back on topic!)
: I understand that economic activity has to resume, but if we have a
: choice, let's all agree to do it the smart way. Don't give people the
: option of being selfish or stupid.
People always have the option of being selfish and/or stupid, frequently
with terrible consequences for others. Why pick this one issue in
particular? If it were truly possible to mitigate the problems of
selfishness and stupidity, many of us wouldn't still remember where we were
on the evening of May 31, 2003...
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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